I got this email last week and I decided to answer it here, in case somebody else has the same question.
Proud to be a homosexual? God has already made his position clear!
He will destroy America because of you faggots.
Ever heard of Sodom and Gemorrah?
Ray, a real American
I looked up that story you told me about, and I am happy to report that I think we’re going to be okay.
You see, I know five righteous men.
Here’s what I’m talking about: The story you mentioned is from the book of Genesis, in chapter 19. It is an old story. No one knows how old it is, but it probably dates from the tenth century, BCE, at least. That is a very old story, isn’t it?
Anyway, in Genesis 19, the townspeople of Sodom demand to rape a couple visiting (male) angels. Yahweh gets so mad about it that he burns the place down. Scorches it. By the time he’s done, there’s nothing left where Sodom once stood but piles of salt.
Now, I read that and I gave it some thought. I thought about what Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and other people have told me about hurricanes hitting Louisiana or meteors hitting New York City because of homosexuals. And you’re right: This is some scary stuff!
When I was done with all that thinking, though, I went back and I read a little more in that book. It turns out, there’s some other stuff going on before Sodom gets it. In fact, back in Mamre, back in chapter 18, Yahweh decides to tell Abraham what’s about to go down in Sodom.
And when Yahweh tells him, Abraham says, “Come on, Yahweh, you’re better than this! You’re really going to kill the good people of Sodom because of what a few would-be angel-fuckers do? What if there are fifty non-angel-fuckers there? Why do they have to die?”
I’m paraphrasing here…
Yahweh says, “I won’t destroy Sodom if there are fifty non-angel-fuckers.”
But Abraham, he keeps pushing. He says, “And what if there are only forty-five non-angel fuckers?”
Yahweh says, “I won’t destroy Sodom if there are forty-five non-angel-fuckers.”
And Abraham says, “What if there are only forty non-angel fuckers?”
Yahweh says, “I won’t destroy Sodom if there are forty non-angel-fuckers.”
It goes on like this for a while until finally, Abraham gets down to five righteous, non-angel-fucking Sodomites. Yahweh will not wipe out the town if there are five righteous non-angel-fucking Sodomites.
For some reason, this is where Abraham leaves it. We don’t know what would have happened if he’d gone ahead and asked about fourgood townspeople. Or three good townspeople. Or one Sodomite who is spectacularly good and one who wears polyester.
I do not have to know any more than this because I know five righteous men, and I take them with me wherever I go.
I recommend that you do this, too, to guarantee that you do not inadvertently become collateral damage in God’s divine drone strike on faggotry.
I’ll tell you, Ray, I am sort of surprised you did not know about this already. This book makes God’s position abundantly clear!
And while I have your attention and while we’re on this subject, I read another section of the Old Testament this week. It was in the book of Ezekiel, in chapter 18.
In the book of Ezekiel, in chapter 18, Ezekiel and Yahweh are having a theological back and forth about something Yahweh had said years and years earlier. They’re talking about when Yahweh had said, in Exodus 20, that if you piss him off, he will punish your kids, and he will punish your kids’ kids, and he will punish your kids’ kids’ kids, too.
But in Ezekiel 18, Yahweh says that Exodus 20 isn’t true. He says you’re only responsible for your own sins. He says the son doesn’t bear the father’s guilt.
Yahweh says (and this I am not paraphrasing), “The one who has sinned is the one who must die.”
Yahweh says, “The upright will be credited with his uprightness and the wicked with his wickedness.”
Yahweh even says, “In the future, house of Israel, I shall judge each of you by what that person does – declares the Lord Yahweh.”
Seriously. That is what it says, right there in black and white.
So Ray, I think what I’m trying to say here is that I read the book you mentioned, I think we’re going to be okay. The book says you should probably focus on being good yourself.
God will not be burning everyone in America because of us faggots.
Anyway, Ray, I hope this letter lets you sleep a little better tonight.
Thanks for your email, and please keep reading “Lesbians in My Soup!”
This is tight writing. This is just great.ReplyDelete
It was my actual response to the email, and it didn't seem as fun as most of my posts. So I wasn't too sure about posting it.
Did you get a response to your response? I'm guessing if you did, it wasn't, "oh, shit, you're right. I should have read the manual I'm quoting before I quote it."Delete
No response as of yet.Delete
I'm beginning to fear that it might have just been a drive-by insult, especially in light of the "Proud of being homosexual" quip.
That's too bad. We might have had a mutually-enlightening friendship.
Oh yes, I keep my posse nearby at all times. It's getting tough to feed them all though...ReplyDelete
But it's worth it, even if they're boring as hell. I mean, if they're going to keep me from getting turned into a pillar of salt and all...Delete
Every time I think I've found one righteous man he eventually turns out to be a cheesy dishonest evasive manipulative cheeseball fuck. Your thoughts Katy?ReplyDelete
Sounds like the kind of luck I have with women, Dan.Delete
The secret is to cast them aside before their true colors start showing. That way your memories of them will be strictly positive.
Yeah... That sounds like good advice.
Suck my dick.
You are so much more concise than I am!Delete
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
I would say that the story is a variation on the one I talk about in the blog.Delete
These stories tend to get recycled. Basically, old tales are used by different traditions for whatever purposes that tradition can put them.
In the story I recounted, Abraham and Yahweh aren't actually negotiating - Yahweh never changes his minimum number of people. But over the years, people have THOUGHT of him as bargaining with Abraham there, which means it's not unlikely that a story would have gone around in which they did.
Thanks for telling me about that!
Hey there Kathy (the sinner of sinners) - great post and I like your new formatReplyDelete
via electronic social intercoursing I know five righteous men that are real Americans that wear polyester
Great concept; I was planning a blog sort of like this and wanted to try some new stuff
It's a hot day and I got ants in my pants - will post some notes for the blog here and link back to you
What If God Was One Of Us...
Bad to the Bone (could be funny)
they did not teach me this stuff in bible school
Homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorrah
BBL - shower - following the yellow brick road
Cool. I will have a look.Delete
I think the clash between homosexuality and religion is possibly the coolest issue of our time.
Not just because it affects me in a roundabout way, but because it really is a matter of seeing change as it happens! Furthermore, it is a clash involving change - and no fighting or bombs.
How often does THAT happen?
The next five years are going to be incredible.
What if God Was One of Us?Delete
Exploring the concept, with a broad brush; What if God was one of us? -- "How strange is the lot of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he sometimes thinks he senses it. But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people" -- Albert Einstein
road block - try again laterReplyDelete
When is someone going to burn down the Westboro Baptist Church? --- Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church are quite famous for linking the death of US soldiers to the acceptance of homosexuality by the US Military
not going to do a Syrian thing...
I hope no one does.Delete
The gay rights lobby could not find a better advocate if they tried.
As over-the-top horrendous as some gay folks out there ARE, I don't know if they have anyone who does them as much damage as Reverend Phelps does to the anti-gay cause...
One can always use humor to good effect when using the Bible to combat its own followers because the Bible is such a piece of contradictory crap that one really can use it to prove most anything. The only part of what you wrote that struck me as odd was at the top and was only referred to by "Ray, a real American" (Ray being qualified to define what constitutes a real American). The idea of taking pride in ones sexual orientation strikes me as unfathomable, sexual orientation being a given that one can take no credit for even if credit were due. In other words, even if being gay was superior to being non-gay, it would be like inheriting money as opposed to earning money through hard work and frugality, with only the latter being deserving of respect.ReplyDelete
Yeah, I'm hardly a spokesperson for anyone other than myself, but I've never really understood the whole "gay pride" idea.
The only way it makes sense to me is if you're contrasting the word "pride" with "shame" or "embarrassment."
I'm embarrassed (and maybe even ashamed) of plenty I've done. Being a lesbian is not one of the things I worry too much about either way.
I think Ray was just painting with a broad brush and assuming all LGBT folks can be spoken of as a monolithic group... Hey, maybe he'll stop by and clarify!
Katy, I was first exposed to you through the "Opinionated Catholic" blog. It's rare to hear dissenting voices on such blogs without them immediately being slammed, so I give the blog owner some credit for allowing you and me to escape such abuse. I was impressed by your reasonableness and the clarity with which you expressed yourself. I have at least two lesbian followers, but only one who regularly writes about feelings and issues pertaining to her lesbianism. I've already referred her to you, so I'll refer you to her: http://www.debrapasquella.com/Delete
I always try to be respectable about the way I approach issues when I'm on a page where I know I'm a minority voice.Delete
I think it's because I've rarely (if ever) been convinced a new point of view by being insulted.
(Thanks for showing me the way to Debra's blog - and your own!)
Hi Katy, That was a brilliant response. I have a friend who was raised Christian and then converted to Islam. She once told me "I figure if God waits till the end to judge, then everybody else needs to just shuuut uppp." She's a wise lady, as are you.ReplyDelete
It is basically a full-time job for me to keep myself in line. I barely have the time, energy, and know-how to spend on explaining to the kids why we ought to behave as well as we can.
So yeah, I certainly don't have the time nor inclination to fix anyone else.
But I figured Ray would appreciate knowing that MY sins are unlikely to get HIM burned alive!
I'm always amazed by people who read about a town being destroyed because it was apparently populated by gang-rapists and think, "yep, it was the gays. God destroyed the town because of the gays." Idiots!ReplyDelete
You know, the whole "gang raping visitors in town" thing must have been fairly common in those days, because it happens in Judges 19, too!Delete
In that case, a woman is basically released to the mob, though, and they gang rape her TO DEATH.
I think I'll actually refer to this post for future quarrels of Ray's kind. I just love it when 'Rayers' have their own material used against them.ReplyDelete
I'm also unsure what a real American is. Is he an immigrant, or just the son of one? Whatever. I liked this.
I could not quite make the relevant connection between his citizenship and his theological point, either.Delete
I thought it might just be because I can be pretty dim-witted at times.
Not sure if my comment came through, but all I have to say is one word: BRAVO! Snowbrush referred me to your blog. :)ReplyDelete
Hi, Deb. Thanks to Snowbrush, I was wandering around your place earlier today, too. I'll be back over asap.Delete
This is fantastic Katy.ReplyDelete
I'm just relieved that my scriptural research indicates that I won't be the cause of 4 million deaths!
Well, not for THAT reason anyway...Delete
Shhh... Everything else is still in the planning stages.Delete
BRILLIANT!! Simply brilliant!! As someone who was once described as a "serious Christian" my problem with folks like Ray are the same as yours, misquoted scripture and illogical leaps in theology. A few weeks ago our Sr Minister stood said to +/- 4000 people that folks condemning gays were wrong. It wasn't biblical. Clearly it isn't Christ like.ReplyDelete
What happened to Love your neighbor and the parable of the good Samaritan?
I don't know about being righteous, but if you ever need a 5th I got your back sister.
I'm not sure how Christianity will ultimately resolve the issues with LGBT folks.Delete
I think they WILL. I think that they'll bring LGBT folks wanting to accept the message into the fold.
I just don't know how they will manage to do it.
I think that accepting that God isn't going to hurl a meteor at Houston trying to hit me is a good start.
Hurtling a meteor at Houston trying to take out one rather skinny girl seems overkill. IF He were so inclined I would think a bus or maybe a freak canoing accident in downtown would be more likely. If you believe in an all powerful God then you have to believe He has better surgical strike capabilities than the US military.Delete
This attitude is why I stopped going to my parents church 40 years ago. As a general rule they keep a pile of stones handylest they be caught unprepared to join the 1st volley.
I made a similar statement on a religious site this weekend.Delete
I noted that early Christians cast themselves as revolutionaries in thought - Paul thought the end was near, but once we all lived in the spirit, we would really be completely free. This has nothing to do with a prude old grandmother whining about "kids today" or God punishing New Orleans for Mardi Gras.
Alas, my comment was not taken very well even though i was VERY polite!
On more than on occasion I tried to express my feelings on this subject. All my attempts sounded shrill. You did this so wonderfully.Delete
I have long maintained that in God's big book of sins, being gay was no better or worse than cheating on your wife or embezzlement. This is not a popular point of view with most conservative men.
I can't even choose what kind of soft drink to get in the grocery store.Delete
The idea that I could decide who gets to burn for eternity is laughable.
That's why I turned God down for that gig, actually.
Plus, he didn't pay benefits.
Uh oh. I don't know even one righteous person. I mean, I know "righteous" people in the Cleopatra Jones/Foxy Brown sense of the word, but not the Biblical notion. I'm screwed. What if I just had a philosophical discussion with Yahweh like they did back in the day? Oh, I'd be put in a sanitarium and force-fed pills, I forgot how talking to mystical deities works in modern times.ReplyDelete
Also, I'm picturing you wearing your righteous friends like a living technicolor dreamcoat.
Because of you, I now have the theme to "Shaft" playing in my head.Delete
This is fine, though, because it gives me an excuse to play a CD I own called, "Can You Dig it?: The Music and Politics of Black Action Films 1968-1975."
God even works on smaller scales, too. The other day I said I support gay marriage rights, and 10 minutes later a fat man sneezed in my soup. Surely that was God, letting me know how much he hates "those faggits."ReplyDelete
That actually makes a lot more sense as far as divine retribution goes than taking out a whole city.Delete
God's gotta be clever like that. I mean, this is the guy who made the platypus and Spiro Agnew, after all.
I love youReplyDelete
And I love you, Vicus Scurra, although I'd like to make it clear that it is notthe kind of love likely to get our towns destroyed.Delete
The Bible is a complicated thing. The book is the Word of God, but it is written by the hand of man. It's not as if the writers were possessed and unknowingly became scribes against their will; therefore, there is a great possibility that some of their personal peeves were entwined in the text. I suppose Leviticus (who has been argued to be gay himself) would be a good example of this with the many nonsensical laws.ReplyDelete
Furthermore, the Bible has been translated between languages upon thousands of years. Many of the languages don't directly translate with one another, so the meaning is lost.
I'm not entirely sure what I'm talking about, so I'm going to leave the argument to you, Katy, because you've done more research than I.
Way to stay civilized, too! I know people who start "arguments" like this tend to take the lower path by using name-calling and insults and such. Bravo!
Hi, Chiz. It's been a while!Delete
I'm not near smart enough to know a best or worst case scenario for how the books of the Bible got written.
How it got translated always has wild stories written about it - 75 monks all translating it exactly the same way and so forth.
Which is why cultural mythology is so cool! (I'm not insulting the stories in and around the Bile by calling them mythology. By definition, they ARE.)
I'm not an expert on very much...
I thank you for pointing out and thank God that He won't burn me in hell for trying to help save you godless, rabid atheists. Although I felt it was the right thing to do, I never had a legal opinion on the matter, which I must say severely worried me. Perhaps I shall be able to sleep peacefully tonight.ReplyDelete
I should probably add a disclaimer that God is not legally bound by the positions and conclusions I express here.Delete
"thank God that He won't burn me in hell for trying to help save you godless, rabid atheists."Delete
I can just feel your love for us, Cal.